As in everything else we do folks have to make up their own minds- but your idea that there is any authority outside of scripture can be examined and either supported or refuted by the texts. when I read your last post to me--I decided that it has to be broken down into several pieces so folks can see where there is no cement or glue to the idea of the church being the authority today..
And,in dealing with the folks who believe that which is perfect is Jesus Christ in I Cor 13:8-10 and the following informatin refutes that idea but it also does something else.. It gives us information on which we can begin to decide for ourselves what "perfect" means..
So we need to first of all deal with this text..and, then we must deal with some other parts of your post--but perhaps in a way that you are not used to. Anyway, let's begin here..
First thing to notice is--this inspired prediction-- 1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. {fail: Gr. vanish away}(KJV)
Now, for those folks in Corinth who glorified in the glossa gift--this was a bucket of cold water in the face. You know it still has that same effect today on folks who insist on the "counterfeit"--"ecstatic utterances" as the real thing.
But did you notice that is not all Paul says--He goes on to state that the other supernatural gifts of prophecies and knowledge were also to be done away.
Tongues seem to particually emphasized.Prophecies and knowledge "shall be done away, but tongues SHALL CEASE.
Now, if the glossa gift{speaking\teaching about Jesus in a foreign language} was going to cease while other things remained--it surely could not of been as important as those practising it believed it to be.Did you notice that Paul did not even include "tongues" along with Prophecy and knowledge as a part of the "perfect."
In fact this is what Paul says-- 1Corinthians 13:9-10 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. {done away: Gr. vanish away} (KJV)
Again, please note--nothing is said about speaking in tongues "in part." Previously, Paul said they were to cease in and of themselves.Point, when we reach the point of talking about that which is perfect--TONGUES ARE NOT A PART OF THE PROGRAM--NOT A PART OF THE DISCUSSION WITH THAT--WHICH IS PERFECT. NOPE--NADA, NO WAY, ETC!!!!
Now, Miraculous gifts were to become inoperative. And that brings us to the biggie--"What is the 'perfect?'"
Tongues{speaking in a foreign language preaching and teaching Jesus Christ} DID NOT NEED REPLACEMENT. THEY had served their purpose and WERE TO CEASE OF THEMSELVES--WITHOUT REPLACEMENT.....
Now, different folks have interpreted "perfect" to mean:
[1]the coming of Christ in judgement [2]the perfect state of heaven [3]the body or the church [4]love, the abiding gift [5]the full revelation of God's Word
Now, the word translated "perfect" is TELEION. It is in the nominative case, singular number, and in the neuter gender Arndt-Gingrich gives the defination as being "having attained the end or purpose, complete, perfect. AG also suggests thathe term can sometimes mean mature,fullgrown and fully developed.
In His study of the word Perfect, R. L. Roberts brings together a number of authors in his study of the word.
Thayer has: 'Brought to its end, finished: wanting nothing necessary to completness;perfectMoulton-Milligan--'Literally havling reached its end; hence, full grown, mature...in good working order...complete, final.
Trench says--The various applications of teleion are all referable to the telos, which is its ground. The meaning of telos is given as: [1]end: most frequently of the termination or limit of an act or state{in the NT also of the end of a period of time, cl.teleute}According to these facts--Lenski--very aptly says that "when the complete shall come' refers to the "GOAL IN COMPARISION WITH WHAT IS STILL ON THE WAY"
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If so, whatever, "perfect" means, ut must be the goal, the completion, the perfecting of something yet unfinished, undeveloped, imperfect or "on the way."
Whatever the meaning of the word, it must carry with it the idea of "complete, mature or finished."
Some have understood "the perfect" to refer to the second coming of Christ. T. C. Wisenbaker writes:
"Evidently, when thatwhich is perfect comes, when we see face to face andwhen we understand fully can only refer to the time of the second Coming of Christ.
Now, there are two problems with this interpetation.[1] Faith, hope, and love are to abide even when "the perfect has been realized. We must grasp that when Jesus comes back the second time--faith will be made sight--and hope will find fullfillment. The perfect can not then refer to the second coming of Christ.
[2]The fact that perfect is in the "neuter gender" makes it clear that it could not possible be in reference to Christ, for it would then have to be"masucline in gender."
Albert Barnes is among those who have suggested "the perfect" as referring to future life in heaven.The coming of the "perfect" IS AT A TIME WHEN faith, hope and love STILL EXIST.. Faith and hope will have given away to sight and fullfillment in heaven Paul said--Romans 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. (KJV) Faith is a conviction of things not seen--Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. {substance: or, ground,or, confidence} (KJV)
It is important that we notice that the phrases "in part" modified "knowledge & prophecy" as miraculous gifts. It cannot be made to modify anything else here
Some have expressed the view that the reference here is to knowledge and prophecy as the effects of the spiritual gifts. They agree that the gifts have passed away but their effect, i.e. revealed truth, will continue until we have perfect knowledge in heaven.
Yet from the texts themselves Paul has the gifts themselves and not the effect of the gifts in mind.
[3] the "perfect" as the church since chapter 12 speaks of the body, the church one believes this same same thought is carried over into chapter 13. This view comes from a practising glossolalist who seems to be a little confused--his conclusion would have folks doing such are carnal minded while those who do not are mature and perfected.
[4] Love has sometimes been offered as the "perfect."Jack McKinny writes supporting this view--The Greek word for perfect bears besides its absolute sense also the meanings "complete" and "mature."cf 14:20 where it is translated men..
We must note too that in the original, to see "face to face" means no more in its figurative use than seeing "clearly" or "fully." There is nothing in this context which would indicate that Paul is thinking of the end of time and Christ's return. That which is perfect--is none other than love, the subject of the entire chapter. Nor must any object, "but love in this age is not perfect." In Paul's discussion, when compared to miraculously imparted and spiritually external charismata, love is perfect, conceptually.
It is the very goal of all Christian growth and service. It is that innner, mature complete, spiritual grace which unites all other virtues in itself{vs 4-7} it is in fact in Paul's mind "the bond of perfectness." {Col 3:14}. In 1 Cor 13 Paul has progressed through thevarious grace-gifts toward the same goal as in Ephesians 4:7-16: Eph 4:7-16: maturity in love.
What he is saying to the Corinthians however, who even in the use of spiritual gifts are behaving childishly and carnally is: Come now, it is time to start putting aways our blocks and grow up.
Well, there is a lot about this interpretation that certainly has merit. The subject of love is the context in which the perfect is found.Love is shown to be the mature and enduring gifts and contrasted to the immature and passing spiritual gifts. And, this interpretation does fit Pauls other statements in Eph 4:9-16 and Col 3:14.
However, there are two rather major problems with holding and hanging on to this interpretation.
[1]First, the "gender" of "teleion" is "neuter" and the gender of agape is feminine. If Paul meant "theperfect" to be "love" certainly he would have used "teleia" instead of "teleion." The adjective must agree with the noun it modifies.
[2] The immediate context of "the perfect" refers to the passing of the supernatural spiritual gifts of knowledge and prophecy. Please note the passage with some of the words in CAPS for emphasis...
For we know IN PART, and we prophesy IN PART;but when that which is perfect is come, THAT WHICH IS IN PART shall be done away....now I know IN PART; but then shall I knowfully even as also I was fully known.
Folks, "the perfect" and the "in part" are in contrast That which is "in part" is but a "segment" of that which is "perfect." "The perfect" must be understood in terms of that which is "in part." The miraculous gifts of knowledgeand prophecies are what Paul consider to be "in part" therefore that which is "perfect" must be the completion of or the maturing of these gifts.
Love has no part in this discussion of the passing of spiritual gifts. Love is the broad context. The passing of spiritual gifts is the immediate context which is tied together by the contrast of "that which is perfect" and "that which is in part."
At this point it is obvious that I believe that this is the better or best choice--but it is not free of problems--the question seems to be are the problems insurrmountable?
First a statement and then let's deal with the objections...
The early church was depentent upon oral revelation by holy apostles and prophets for its knowledge of the will of God. God placed the message in inspired men...enabling them to speak as the Holy Spirit gave them utterance.
Thus the word of God was revealed IN PART--GRADUALLY, UNTIL IT WAS "ONCE FOR ALL DELIVERED TO THE SAINTS{JD3} and written by inspiration as a full revelation of the divine word.
In my studies I have found four major objections to that which is perfect being the complete revelation of Gods will in the scriptures.
[1] Glossolalists object to this interpretation. Why? Because it refutes their practise of"tongue speaking."Get this--If the "perfect" refers to the complete revelation of God in the scriptures--THERE COULD BE NO AUTHORITY FOR GLOSSOLALIA TODAY... The gifts were to pass when the perfect{completedrevelation of God in the scriptures}has come so the gifts have passed away.The "objection" is based upon an attempt to read a present religious practice into the text of the Scriptures.
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[2] Some have objected to this interpretation because they believe that Paul did not intend to prove the passing of the Miraculous in this passage.
Now, Paul primary purpose in this passage was not to prove that the Scriptures were to cause the spiritural gifts to cease. Not at all. Paul's purpose was to show that faith, hope and charity were superior to the gifts of prophecies, tongues and knowledge. The spiritual gifts were temporary and were to cease when "that which is perfect is come>" FAITH, HOPE AND LOVE WILL STILL ABIDE
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[3]Some object as a reaction to the use of James 1:25 to prove that the "perfect" of I Cor 13:10 is the perfect law of liberty. This is a valid objection. to take the contents of one passage and insert it into another is not good exegesis.
Currently, I know of no one making this claim but then I am a very small frog in a very small pond.
We have been examing reasons why some folks object to that which is perfect as being the revealed will of God in the scriptures.
[4] Note here that "prophecies" and "knowledge" do not agree in gender with "perfect" in this passage.Both prophecies,-prophetia and knowledge--gnosis are feminine while perfect--teleion is neuter.This would indicate that the "perfect" included more or something different from a fullness of knowledge and complete prophecies.
Now, this is a "problem"--However, we have already demonstrated that miraculous prophecies andknowledge were "a part" of the "perfect." If knowledge and prophecies are a part of "the perfect" but are not to be identified with it because of the difference in gender, what can the perfect be?
[a] well some have suggested "ta hiera grammata" the holy scriptures but one have to travel to 2 Tim 3:15 to find it--It certainly is not in the context of 1 cor 13.
[b] Perhaps others would offer as a guess the word "gift" After all the Greek word is "Charisma" and it is neuter in gender. And, the word is in the context. In fact in both lists of spiritual gifts in chapter 12, the word is used repeatedly. It is so much a part of the context that the translators have inserted italicized "gifts" in 13:2 and 14:1.
In the immediate context of "the perfect" prophecies, tongues, and knowledge are discussed. All of these are called gifts--charismata in other places.
If "charisma--gift" is considered the antecedent to "the perfect" how would it fit into the context? Hmmm,perhaps pretty well.
The apostles show that the temporary spiritual gifts, that tongues, propecies and knowledge were to cease--BUT WHY? Because there is coming "the perfect{gift}" which will make all of them unnecessary. If "Charisma-gift" is the correct antecedent, the question of "the perfect" IS STILL UNSOLVED. What has happened with this is that the problem has been changed from "what is the perfect" to "what is the perfect gift?"
Now, it still seems that even with all of the objections--the best answer is THE FULL REVELATION OF GOD IN THE SCRIPTURE.
Now, the scriptures are a gift to man--they are complete and in this sense, "perfect."--2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. {in old time: or, at any time}(KJV)
Since the full revelation of God in the Scriptures still appears to be the best answer.. They{the scriptures} are the only thing that makes all of the miraculous spiritual gifts unnecessary.. With the scriptures--SIGNS ARE UNNECESSARY--John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
With the scriptures the gifts of prophecies and knowledge are unnecessary--2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. (KJV)
STUDY OF THE SCRIPTURES PRODUCES CHRISTIAN MATURITY THAT MAKES THE ADMINISTRATIVE GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT UNNECESSARY..
Therefore, after examining the four objections, it still appears that the best interpretation of the "perfect" is the full revelation of the Divine Word. None of the objections are insurmountable---
Hebrews5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.{of full age: or, perfect} {use: or, an habit, or, perfection} (KJV)
Let's illustrate the perfect as the full revelation of God's Word in three steps...
[1]The miracoulous gifts of "prophecies" and "knowledge" were to be done away--become inoperative--Verse 8.
[2] The miraculous gifts of prophecies and knowledge are only in part--only a segment of the whole{V.9}
[3]When the perfect--of which prophecies and knowledge are but a part--is come, these gifts along with the other supernatural gifts will become inoperative--v.10.
Folks the gifts were to cease because they were incomplete. In verse 9, theGreek participle"gar" is used. It is translated "for." Gar is often employed in the Greek when giving a reason or explanation.
That is what Paul is saying. Prophecies and knowledge were to be done away and tongues were to cease because--gar--they were only "in part."
When the "perfect" came there was no further need of them.
In closing--I point out what I pointed out earlier--tongues are not a part of "that which is perfect" tongues were to cease in and of themselves. And, folks, they did and the supernatural spiritual gifts ceased. That which folks claim today is counterfeit and not of God.
Here, rather than argue with Matt over most of this..I simply laid it all out on the table--Now--you--that's right--YOU can look over the information and decide for yourself.
since it seems to be the contention of Matt and the Catholic church--that the authority of the apostles somehow and in some way continues--after the death of the apostles..It is necessary to write a couple more notes on the Supernatural spiritual gifts and their reason for being.
It is my prayer that this will help all of us see why there can be no succession of apostles..Only the orginal apostles could give others the ability to perform supernatural spiritual gifts and when they died the means of acquiring these gifts perished.
No way to pass it on..God Will is now revealed to us in His Written Word and nothing more is needed. Richard seeking finding victory in Christ and in His Word
Matt, greetings in Christ from sunny Kansas,
I gave some consideration as to "why" I would want to include this last section --showing why there is no need for a Catholic church as we know it to exist at all today.
#18 is worth mentioning here so stop a second and ponder it when you get there..I have included just 20 things that we get from the word that makes the Catholic church totally unnecessary..The Catholic church cannot provide any of these essentials...
[1] The Spiritual BEGETTING is with the Word..
James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
1 Corinthians 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet [have ye] not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
Folks All life is generated through SEED! When the Word--the Spiritual seed--is planted in the heart, it germinates on the same principle as the corn that is deposited in the earth.
The Word has in it the embryo of Spiritual life. This was according to God's Will, the apostle James said, and having thus willed it, God accomp;lished it WITH THE WORD OF TRUTH and, as the apostle Paul put it: THROUGH THE GOSPEL
[2] The spiritual BIRTH springs from the incorruptible and eternal Word. 1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 1 Peter 1:23 For you have been begotten again by God's ever-living and enduring word from a germ not of perishable, but of imperishable life.
The one born of the Word has a higher than natural birth of corruptible seed. The divine Giver implants within the heart the word that is LIVING & EVERLASTING--"Which liveth and abideth forever."
It is the Word of the Living God, and it is His living Word. The results of this incorruptible seed is on the princible of the vegetational comparison itself--the germination and development is from the seed. SO IT IS WITH SPIRITUAL LIFE..the generation and fruition is within and from the seed, the Word of God..
[3] The "QUICKENING" of the heart is with the operation of the Word Eph. 2:1,5 "And you hath he quckened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.....even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us togehter with Christ , by grace are ye saved..
Here, the process of quickening is that of salvation by grace. But Paul said to Titus..Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Titus 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Here the "grace of God" that brings salvation "TEACHES US." The good words GRACE & GOSPEL are used synonymously in the New Testament.. David declared.."Thy word hasth quickened me....I will never forget thy precepts; for with them thou hast quickened me"--Ps. 119:50,93. David's ardent declaration is well look at at Paul's arguement here..
Colossians 2:12-13 having been buried with Him in your baptism, in which you were also raised with Him through faith produced within you by God who raised Him from among the dead.And to you--dead as you once were in your transgressions and in the uncircumcision of your natural state--He has nevertheless given Life with Himself, having forgiven us all our transgressions. Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
The Quickening is the salvation by grace in..Ephesians 2:1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins; Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
The quickening is the salvation by grace in Eph 2:1,5; and of the forgiveness of all trespasses in Col 2:12-13d; and is accomplished bythe Word of God and its precepts, according to Psa 119: 50,93. fThe Spirit fquickens when the seed of the Word gets into the moral nature of man as the rudiment from which life springs.
[4] The spiritual CLEANSING is a process of the Word..
John 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Folks this cleansing process is begun THOUGH THE WORD i n the teaching of Christ, and is completed BY THE WORD--its agency is the inspired teaching of the apostles of Christ.
[5] The "soul" is PURIFIED in obedience to the Word
1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [see that ye] love one another with a pure heart fervently:
The process of purification is begun by embracing the gospel, and "IN OBEYING THE TRUTH." Through the teaching of the Spirit the indwelling truth springs into all of the virtures of brotherhood in the church. Thus the truth is the effective instrument for the cintinued pruifying of the soul...1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. 1 John 3:3 And every man who has this hope fixed on Him, purifies himself so as to be as pure as He is.
[6] The "soul" is SAVED by the implanted Word
James 1:21-22 Ridding yourselves, therefore, of all that is vile and of the evil influences which prevail around you, welcome in a humble spirit the Message implanted within you, which is able to save your souls. But prove yourselves obedient to the Message, and do not be mere hearers of it, imposing a delusion upon yourselves. James 1:21-22 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
To "graft" is to insert a cion from one tree into another. In this description the cion of the word is RECEIVED, and is therefore acquiredfd by hearing and doing the teaching. Paul said to the Corinthians..1 Corinthians 15:1-2 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
They[the Corinthians] had RECEIVED the same engraft of the gospel and were in the state of Salvation--"By which ye are saved." But James exhorts the saved members to RECEIVE with meekness the word which is able to SAVE--that by the hearing and the doing of the doctrine of the gospel, the implanted word, they would remain in the state of salvation--THE WORD IS ABLE TO KEEP US SAVED..if we continue to hear it and to do it.
[7] The JUSTIFICATION by faith comes through obedience to the Word
Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ,.."Galatians 2:16
On the basis of a general principle or truth, justification comes not to hearers only but to doers; the law was here used as an illustratin, but the justification comes through "THE LAW OF FAITH," not by the boasted works of the lasw of the Jews.
Where is boasting then? It is excluded By what law? of works? Nope No way, Jose--BUT BY THE LAW OF FAITH..Romans 3:27 Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
What is here describedas THE LAW OF FAITH by which all are justificed is designated in the Galoation letter as THE FAITH OF CHRIST.k The clauses "the faith of Christ," and "the law of faith" --mean the GOSPEL--and being "JUSTIFIED BY THE SPIRIT OF OUR GOD." In this next text "justification" is by the gospel..1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
[8] It was the apostle's desire for all to BE FILLED WITH KNOWLEDGE.
Colossians 1:9 "... that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; It was "through the power of the Holy Spirit"--verse 13--that the knowledge of His will had come to them for the source of spiritual understanding. It can come to us and dwell in us only through the teaching of the truth-verse 5--"wherefore hye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel"--and that means ONLY THROUGH THE WORD...
[9] The members of the church were given insired instruction to let the WORD dwell in them.
Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. The parallel passage is Ephesians 5:18-19 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
The "WORD OF CHRIST" is the word that he inspired his apostles to preach, and which themembers of the body were told to let inhabit their hearts. On the same subject to the Eph. the apostle commanded thatthey "be filled with the Spirit." A reading of the two passages side by side will prove the parallel: Be filled with the Spirit" is a COMMAND. One cannot obey a promise, or that which is bestowed as a gift, such as a direct reception or an immediate indwelling of the Holy Spirit; therefore the instructin to BE FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT does not refer to a direct indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
The passage in Eph. IS A COMMAND and the parallel Col. passage "LET THE WORD OF CHRIST DWELL IN YOU RICHLY, describes "HOW" the command is obeyed.
Thus Eph 5:18 and Col 3:16 are equated , and to be filled with the Spirit is accomplished through the Word.
[10] The means of direction and guidance is that of being LED BY THE WORD.. Psalm 73:24 Thou shalt guide me with thy counsel, and afterward receive me [to] glory. Psalm 119:105 Thy word [is] a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Luke 1:77-79 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people ... To give light to them that sit in darkness .. to guide our feet into the way of peace.
These passages encircle and encompass the WORD OF GOD. All who are guided by the Word are LED BY THE SPIRIT. and His Word fis able to lead us to heaven: thou shalt gude me with thy counsel, and afterwared receive me to glory."
[11] The WITNESS within the heart of true believers is THE WORD OF TRUTH. 1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
It is claimed that the statement of verse 10, "He that believeth on the Son of God hath witness in himself," establishes the immediate lindwelling of the Holy Spirit. But the context declares what this witness is and how it is received."If we receivef the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son." The witness of men is their uninspired testimony of human consciousness, but he witness of God, which is greater than man, is the inspired testimony of the truth.
The proper reading of V.10 will verify this..1 John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.---BELIEVETH NOT THE RECORD-- and folks the "record" is THE WORD OF GOD.
The terms "witness, testify, and record" clearly show that the truth is the spheref in which the witness exists--it is the gospel of witness.
There is nothing in the passage that affirms animmediate indwellingf of the Spirit or that describes the naked Spirit of God operating on the naked spirit of man without testimony--and the testimony is the truth, and the witness is the INSPIRED WORD OF TRUTH..
[12] The GROWTH of the spiritual bae is by the milk of the Word. 1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: The reference to newborn babes connects with the immediate context of the precedingvers--1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, ....."As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby.
The SINCERE MILK means the pure unadulterated Word; and GROW THEREBY means that the Word is all-sufficient to accomplish the end of Spiritual growth. All to whom the apostle was writing had been saved from past sins, and the pure and unadulterated Word was al that was necessary to acocmplish their present, future and final salvation.
[13] The effectual WORKING within is accomplishedd by the indwelling WORD 1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received [it] not [as] the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
The "folks" to whom Paul fwas writing had received the word of God by hearing the preaching of it, and this same word was EFFECTUALLY WORKING in them. The word EFFECTUAL means, according to tis definition: that which is powerful enough to produce the intended effect, adequate--it is fully efficacious--no supplement is necessary. IT MEANS FOLKS THAT THE WORD IS ALL SUFFICIENT.
[14] The truth within produces FRUIT without
Colossians 1:5-6 on account of the hope treasured up for you in Heaven. Of this hope you have already heard in the Message of the truth of the Good News. For it has reached you, and remains with you, just as it has also spread through the whole world, yielding fruit there and increasing, as it has done among you from the day when first you heard it and came really to know the grace of God,
Colossians 1:5 -6For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; Which is come unto you, as [it is] in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as [it doth] also in you, since the day ye heard [of it], and knew the grace of God in truth:
WHAT A PASSAGE!!!WHAT A DECLARATION! In the oneverse 5 are all three terms--The WORD...the TRUTH...the GOSPEL..--in significant order.
The Word was heard and believed when it was first preached; it was present with them and in them in the form of revealed truth; and it was the gospel, tghe good news of salvation and of "the hope which is laid up for yhou in heaven."
This living, animated thing, called the WORD and the TRUTH and the GOSPEL remained in them to produce and bringforth FRUIT continually, making them increasingly fruitful in the knowledge of God.
V.9-10--the "3" terms--the WORD--the TRUTH--the GOSPEL fwere as one fertile tree, yielding abundant fruit with increasing knowledge, of which the Colossians were a specimen. This is the "fruit of the Spirit" through the Word.
[15]--The indwelling truth is the rule byd which the folowers of Christ WALK in the doing of his entire will. 2 John 1:4 It is an intense joy to me to have found some of your children living true Christian lives, in obedience to the command which we have received from the Father.3 John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children are living in obedience to the truth.Philippians 3:16 But whatever be the point that we have already reached, let us persevere in the same course.
The word "truth" is mentioned five time in 2nd Jn. The truth was IN GAIUS and he love it and walked in it. There could be no better way of walking in the Spirit thant TO WALK IN THE TRUTH. it is the revelation of the Holy Spirit and with this WORD of the Spirit to lead us, we may all with one mind walk by the same rule.
[16] The source of STRENGTH is the knowledge of the WORD OF HIS GRACE. Acts 20:32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.Colossians 1:9 -11... that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will..., and increasing in the knowledge of God; Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power...."Romans 15:14 And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.
The expression "word of Graced which is able to build you up," in Acts 20:32 is an equation with "the grace of God that bringeth salvation," and in Titus 2:11-12-- which "teach us"--the grace of God BUILDS us up by TEACHING US.
And we are strengthened with all might--when fwe are "filled with the knowledge of His will," according to explanation in Rom 16:25. And this is how one is "strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man"[Eph 3:16]--It is through "the glorious power" of His WORD when we are filled with the knowledge of it.
[17] The inspired Word has the power to COMFORT the breaved.
1 Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 3:2 And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith: Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
In the period of persecution that followed in the years after these epistles were delivered to these churches, manyh of their members were martyrs. It is not fanicul to say that their comfort was found in the indwelling words of inspiration. The Scriptures both Old And New, were w2ritten for our learing though wehich we recieve the comfort of home--and, THAT IS THROUGH THE WORD...
[18] The Spirit of GRACE in the apostolic epistles is set forth as the gospel of Christ...
Acts 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God. Acts 20:34 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me. Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Titus 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
In these passages it is clear that GRACE is equated with the jgospel; and that the spirit of grace in Heb 10:29 is the New Covenant.; and the GRACE OF JGOD that brings salvbation fis the gospel.
Added to these is the marvel that Paul expressed that the Galalations--Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Here the "opposite" delcares the GRACE OF GOD TO BE THE GOSPEL and the qualifying statement WHICH IS NOT ANOTHER, shows that they had removed from the GOSPEL to something that was not the gospel at all. It follows therfore, that the SPIRIT OF GRACE is in us when the WORD of GRACE IS IN US..
[19] The love of God is SHED abroad in our hearts by the gospel...
2 Corinthians 4:4-6 ... lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ,..... For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to [give] the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
The statement of Rom 5:5 fthat the love of God is SHED in our hearts by the Holy Spirit, and the statement of 2 Cor 4:4-6 that the light of the knowledge of God is SHINED in our hearts by the gospel, have the same connotation. The prepositional phrase BY THE HOLY SPIRIT slimply denotes agency, and that aagency is the GLORIOUS GOSPEL. The words are different but the thought is the same--and HOW the knowledge of God is SHINED in our heargts thorugh the glospel is exactly HOW the love of God is SHED in our hearts by the Holy Spirit..IT IS THROUGH THE WORD..
[20] The WORD is said to LIVE within the one who beleives it...
John 6:35,51 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger;--I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever:.."
In the context between these two verses i the statement: "And they shall all be taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me"--v.45.
It is clear that the bread of life is EATEN ,or RECEIVED, through being TAUGHT, and by having HEARD, and by LEARNING, and thus through the bread ofthe WORD its life is in us. When Paul said that "Christ liveth in me," he futher stated that it was--"The faith of the Son of God" in him--Gal 2:20.
Point...No one today claims the personal indwelling of Christ in the heart, all admitting that it is representative..So it is with the Holy Spirit..Not an emotional exprience that as a result one begins to re "see" the texts to fit the new experience. That the Holy Spirit lives in us in the same way and to the same extent that Christ lives in us.
Christ lives in us in the same way that he enters into us[Gal 3:2]--through "the hearing of faith." And it is all through the INSPIRED WORD...
Oh--there is a ton more just like this but this should help us to see that the Catholic church is not an authority--It has been given no purpose in any of the above texts...
There should be no misunderstanding that Jesus gave the apostles authority--but with their death--the means of passing on that authority ceases--for as you have just read God has taken care of our needs with His Word--as He intended.
Richard...
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